The following is a transcript of our monthly podcast, The Pension Confident Podcast. Listen to episode 45 or scroll on to read the conversation.
Takeaways from this episode
- 26% of UK workers have already taken a sabbatical - for Gen Z employees it rises to 54%, compared to 8% for Boomers.
- Sabbaticals aren’t just for travel - people can take sabbaticals for everything from flat renovations to IVF treatment.
- Saving for retirement requires consistency - for every year missed of paid work, the loss to a pension pot’s an estimated £5,000, on average.
- Micro-retirements help make the most of your ‘health capital’ - some trips are more physically intensive and less possible in later life.
PHILIPPA: Hi, welcome back. Now look, imagine hitting pause on your career, not decades from now, but far, far sooner. What would you do with all that freedom? We’re talking today about the rise of micro-retirements, or sabbaticals, as maybe they’re better known. Gen Z are big fans, but it’s a big thing with mid-career workers, too. A rejuvenating break, meaningful time for non-work projects, maybe travel or even education. So unlike traditional retirement, micro-retirements offer that chance to hit pause more than once. So if you’ve ever wondered whether taking a break mid-career might boost your happiness and productivity, you’re in the right place.
Now, just before we begin, if you haven’t subscribed to The Pension Confident Podcast yet, why not click right now so you never miss an episode?
We’re talking about the rise of micro-retirements. Here with me, I have Ola Majekodunmi. She’s the Founder of financial literacy platform, All Things Money. And when she’s not inspiring the next generation of savvy savers, she’s off travelling the world. Lauren Spearman is with us, too. She’s become a bit of a TikTok sensation, championing pay transparency and urging employers to treat their people better. From PensionBee, we’re joined by Tom Carter. He’s already taken a sabbatical. Last year, he took three months out from his Senior Performance Marketing Manager job at PensionBee and backpacked through South America.
Hello, everyone.
ALL: Hello.
OLA: What an intro!
PHILIPPA: Here’s the usual disclaimer, just before we start, please do remember anything discussed on the podcast shouldn’t be regarded as financial advice or legal advice. When investing, of course, your capital is at risk.
Tom, I’m so envious. How was it?
TOM: It was fantastic. It was, I think, a once-in-a-lifetime experience. Yeah, it was fantastic. Nice to get away and to see something that you don’t see all the time.
PHILIPPA: Where did you go?
TOM: I was in South America, I flew out to Brazil, and then I horseshoed down and around. Brazil, Argentina, Chile, Bolivia, and Peru.
PHILIPPA: Have you guys done this?
LAUREN: I haven’t been travelling on a sabbatical, but I did take three months off to renovate a flat. In between jobs, I was very fortunate that I had a new job offer and said, “look, can I delay the start by three months because I’m going to throw my all into a flat renovation?” And I loved it. I absolutely love it. I just learnt so many new skills about project management, about managing my patience with builders, all sorts of lovely stuff. Yeah, I’m really grateful to have that time to give it the headspace.
PHILIPPA: That’s a hard deadline. Did you get it done in time?
LAUREN: I did, and I started the job two days after I moved in.
OLA: Wow.
PHILIPPA: Ola, you’ve done lots of little trips, haven’t you?
OLA: Yes, I’m big on taking mini career breaks throughout the year. So I haven’t, as such, done a traditional sabbatical - but I do love taking breaks in the form of travelling whenever I can.
PHILIPPA: So how long do you go for?
OLA: Anywhere between 2-3 weeks, but I did do a month working abroad in Bali at the beginning of this year as well.
PHILIPPA: OK, that sounds all right.
OLA: Yeah, not too bad.
How popular are micro-retirements?
PHILIPPA: So, Tom, is there actually any hard data on how big this is?
TOM: Yeah, it’s definitely becoming more mainstream. There was a study just about the general workforce, I think. I think it’s one-in-three are now considering a mini retirement for about one-to-three months.
OLA: Wow.
PHILIPPA: That’s very high. Do we know about the number of people who’ve already done it?
TOM: 26% of people have taken a sabbatical, and I can imagine that number for both of those is only going to increase further.
PHILIPPA: It’s not always travel, though, is it?
LAUREN: No. Interestingly, I was chatting to a friend about this recently, and she was saying she actually took a sabbatical because she was going through IVF, and actually she took it as a ‘fertility break’. I think having that time to almost give herself the headspace and looking after herself physically and mentally, and then go, “actually, what do I want to do and how do I want to live my life? Can I set myself up for the best fertility journey I may have going through IVF?”.
PHILIPPA: I mean, this all sounds great, but do you tend to get paid, do companies usually offer to pay?
LAUREN: As part of my portfolio career, I’m a Marketing Consultant. I have a client at the moment that offers sabbaticals after five years, I believe it is. And generally, I’m not seeing people that are getting paid for those sabbaticals.
PHILIPPA: So they say you can take the time -
LAUREN: - yes -
PHILIPPA: - but you’re on your own. How long can you take?
LAUREN: Anywhere up to three months.
PHILIPPA: OK.
LAUREN: Yeah. So most people tend to take one [month] just because it feels like it’s a manageable amount to take off given that you’re not going to be earning in that time.
PHILIPPA: Yeah. Tom, what was your experience of that?
TOM: Yeah, I think just adding, I think one month, I feel like it’s quite common. I think it’s also a way of not using all your annual leave, especially if you take it earlier in the year. I think it can be a bit scary if you’re fully employed that you might use a big chunk of your annual leave. So I think the sabbatical is a good option to give you a bit more flexibility. In terms of my experience, the PensionBee policy is you get three months after three years of service with them. And I actually took the full three months and then added on a bit of annual leave for a week -
OLA: Wow!
TOM: - I think, when I was enjoying myself a little bit, so I took a bit longer.
PHILIPPA: I can see why you would.
Making the most of our health capital
PHILIPPA: Maybe you want to do that stuff sooner. And also there’s always that thing that if you do wait right until you’re properly older, you might not be in good shape to do it. You never know, do you?
TOM: Yeah, I completely agree. I think as well as me having that more financial stability, the job security, it gave me the opportunity, for example, in mine - I don’t want to talk too much about it - but I could hike up Machu Picchu. That was a five-day trip. I went into the Amazon. It just gave me the opportunity to really go on maybe some of these longer trips -
OLA: Yeah.
TOM: - that I wouldn’t be doing in 20, 30, 40 years.
PHILIPPA: So physical hardship trips.
OLA: Yeah, it’s so true. Even when I went to Japan, we were doing 25,000 steps a day. It’s a lot, and I, in my 20s, I was struggling. And so, yeah, I think maybe that’s something that people are considering as well.
PHILIPPA: I think we’re all thinking we’re going to work longer, aren’t we? Do you think it’s stemming from that, Lauren? This whole idea that our attitude to work, it’s different now. It’s probably going to be longer.
LAUREN: Yeah, I think so. And if you think about the traditional working pattern of a 9-to-5 with a two-day weekend, that’s been in place for 100 years and it hasn’t evolved since then. The thought of, I’m 41 now, but the thought of working for another almost 30 years at the rate I am with no pause, where’s the fun in that?
Actually, I’ve got a lot of friends in their 60s and 70s that retired, and I see how much fun they’re having. I’m like, “I don’t want to wait until I’m that age to have that fun. How can I have those micro moments and intentional pauses?”, which I think is really motivating.
PHILIPPA: Yeah, because it’s that thing, isn’t it? Particularly if you’re thinking about doing something maybe educative or skills based or something. I mean, later, fine. I’m not saying [you can’t do] lifelong learning. That’s great. But quite handy to do that sooner rather than later.
TOM: Yeah, adding on to that. I think when I was younger, I was always envisioning the ‘FIRE movement’: work hard, finish early, and then go and do this travelling. But I think [I] got to a situation where after being in the career for, I suppose, around 10 years working, it gave me [the] opportunity where I had that financial stability. I didn’t have any family commitments, I had the job security as well. I could spend a bit more money, a bit more comfortable, and then come back to a job as well and not have to then be struggling to find a job as well.
PHILIPPA: Yeah, that FIRE movement you talked about, it was a thing, wasn’t it? It was a big thing. This was Financial Independence, Retire Early, which sounds great and obviously nothing wrong with it. But this sounds like a new iteration of it.
TOM: Yeah, I agree. And I think, I mean, partly it’s probably down to the sacrifices you need to make for that. I think [for] myself, I live in London, it’s getting more and more expensive. And I think I wasn’t ready to commit to that, I suppose.
PHILIPPA: Yeah. I mean, I’m wondering, because obviously first-time buying, people are buying their own homes, that’s getting later and later. 35, I think, is the average age now, isn’t it? Some people are just taking - they aren’t going to do it because they know they’re not going to be able to amass enough deposit to even think about that. And we had talked on a podcast before about what are they doing with that money, that otherwise they’d be stashing for a deposit. Do you think maybe that’s playing into this, too? That thinking, “OK, well, I want to save for that instead?”.
OLA: I think it’s about balance for a lot of people I’ve met and I work with. I think it’s about being in a process of being really witty and smart with your money, but also enjoying the little wins as well. And if that little win means you can save an extra £3,000 just to go away travelling for two weeks, then I think a lot of people will like to go down that route, as well as also still saving for their property and saving for retirement. I think a lot of young people, especially in the era of social media, where we’re constantly being told to save and save and invest and retire soon.
PHILIPPA: It’s you telling them to do that, Ola.
OLA: Yeah, it’s me. I’m not going to lie to you on that. But I think it’s also about making that process enjoyable, and that process becomes enjoyable because you can enjoy those little wins along the way. And I think some people are in a privileged position where they can do a little bit of both.
Tips for saving towards two retirements
PHILIPPA: Did you have rent then?
TOM: Yeah.
PHILIPPA: What did you do?
TOM: I think it’s a big burden. One of the little things I deliberately made a point of - so PensionBee, it’s three months unpaid - but I deliberately made a point of going mid-month. So what it meant is I got half a paycheck in August, then half a paycheck in November.
PHILIPPA: That was smart.
TOM: So that was a little bit. I was able to find someone to come in and sublet as well, which definitely helped.
PHILIPPA: Did you come back with a big debt?
TOM: It wasn’t too bad, no. I had my pot that I’d saved up for as well. So I wasn’t completely walking home. There was a bit of money left, which was good.
OLA: I think that’s what we’re finding. Well, that’s what I’m seeing as well, in terms of young adults that are like, “I’ve been saving for five, six years, but actually, is homeownership my immediate goal? No, it’s not”. And I think that’s what a lot of people are realising. So I think a lot of people are sitting there thinking, “OK, where do I actually want to go in life? Is it retiring early? Is it just making sure I’ve got just some investments, but I can still live in the now?”. I think a lot of people are really reassessing those societal norms.
TOM: I’m probably guilty of that. You look on social media, I was comparing [myself] to my friends. I think relationships plays a part, one of my friends at home, growing up outside of London, they were all in longer term relationships. They’re going to be buying together. So where you’ve got that aspect, I wasn’t.
PHILIPPA: Different life stage?
TOM: Exactly. You moved to London, house prices suddenly were a lot higher. I was saving for my first house. And then after a while, it was a bit like, “hang on, let’s step back a minute here”.
PHILIPPA: And having done that, that still feels like a good choice to you now?
TOM: Completely. Yeah, 100%. I think it was nice to have that break. And I think the stat is that 96% of people who take a sabbatical or a mini-retirement come back feeling more refreshed. I think it can give them some fresh ideas. So I definitely felt like I did. Came back and was ready to then jump back into work and really push on with that. I think it gave me that nice reset as well.
LAUREN: Do you think that that stat, do you think that’s related to people that leave a job where they feel valued, they feel like they matter, they feel like they’re connected to the purpose? Or actually, I wonder if you don’t feel any of that. You actually do come back rejuvenated, but rejuvenated to leave!
PHILIPPA: I think there’s probably quite a lot of that, don’t you? Because whenever you travel, don’t you find this? You come back and you’re just full of ideas. Because you’ve got out of that grind. And other times you think, “I hate this job”.
LAUREN: I’ve definitely had jobs where if I had taken a sabbatical, I would’ve loved to have come back because I loved the job. And then other places that would’ve made me go, “actually, what am I doing?”.
Are sabbaticals the cure for burnout?
PHILIPPA: You see, that brings me very neatly to my next question, because I’m going to throw a little bit of shade at this and say, what do employers make of it? Because I’m thinking, is there that thing where they’re thinking, “you want three months off? I mean, maybe we offer it, maybe we don’t. But what does that say about your commitment?”.
LAUREN: I think good employers are actually starting to bring that in as part of the benefits package, because I think they know that if their staff are treated well, they feel like they matter, they’ve autonomy over the work they do, all of that, they feel valued.
PHILIPPA: So I guess my thought might be then what would be the best way to frame it on your CV? So if you’re thinking about future employers, that gap.
OLA: If it’s a sabbatical in the workplace, where you’re in a place where it’s been offered as a benefits package -
PHILIPPA: That’s all good.
OLA: - I don’t think it necessarily needs to be disclosed on your CV. I also don’t think there’s necessarily an issue in terms of taking career breaks in between jobs where you’ve just decided to go travelling. Because I think people often overlook the skills and how much you develop travelling. I don’t know about you, Tom, when you went backpacking, but I always come back learning something new, and some, when I’ve gone backpacking. I think there’s so many things you can bring into that when you’re in the interview process.
LAUREN: As someone that’s hired plenty of times before, I would’ve been really interested to be like, “what did you do? What did you learn in that time? What did you take away from it?” I think it can be a real positive thing if you’re an employer that wants to hire ambitious, driven people.
TOM: I agree. I think it’s becoming very mainstream. I think there’s probably less questions asked.
LAUREN: I was actually in a meeting yesterday, and there were some stats around the more autonomy someone has over their work, the more engaged they’re as an employee. So actually being able to make that choice is a net positive.
PHILIPPA: It’s very empowering. Yeah. I’m going to play devil’s advocate here and say, if you’re an employer, particularly a small employer, this isn’t an easy thing to give, is it?
OLA: No.
PHILIPPA: Because if you’ve got a small team and someone disappears, even for a month, that’s quite tricky, isn’t it?
LAUREN: Yeah. I think sometimes that’ll be based on [the] duration of how long you’ve been in the business, right? Five years is a long time to work in a business to have a month off. Actually, the reality is that month will go incredibly quickly, but it also allows the employer to plan for that as well. How would they cover that? How would they make that work? So again, I think the success comes in the planning.
PHILIPPA: There’s quite a lot of planning, isn’t it? Because I’m thinking if you’re a small to medium-sized company, obviously, most employers are in this country, and this happens, and then the person comes back and they say, “it was so great”, and then everyone wants to do it. And then you’ve got this repeating pattern of short absences, which could be quite tricky to handle for a business.
TOM: I think one way to look at it is, I also think there’s that retention element -
PHILIPPA: Yes.
OLA: Yes.
TOM: - where I think someone may look at taking that mini-retirement, whereas if you switch it to a sabbatical. I think the cost there’s to train or hire a new person could be quite high; whereas if you know the original person is coming back, I think that can be beneficial.
So they’re not having to put a job advert up, hire someone probably on a higher salary, potentially, and then train them up to know about the company and the role, specifically. If you’re getting the original candidate back, then I think that can help. I guess you could potentially flip it as well and think it’s an opportunity for other people in the company to learn new skills and more about that individual’s role.
PHILIPPA: Or cover a more senior role, briefly.
TOM: So I think that was an element of mine, I guess.
PHILIPPA: Was it?
TOM: Yeah, I suppose one worrying aspect for mine was I thought I was going to come back and then potentially them say they don’t need me anymore, because they would’ve been able to cope without me.
PHILIPPA: Oooh, that would’ve been bad. I hadn’t thought about that.
TOM: It was a bit comforting.
OLA: You’re still here.
TOM: I’m still here.
PHILIPPA: Particularly if you’re on contract, that would be a thought in your head, wouldn’t it? Short contract work, like “do they really need me? They’ve discovered, actually, I’m an expensive luxury and they don’t need me”.
TOM: Exactly. So thankfully, that didn’t happen.
Switching off during your sabbatical
PHILIPPA: OK, I’m going to say, self-employed, because you’re self-employed, right?
OLA: Yes.
PHILIPPA: So this is obviously a different ball game, isn’t it? No employer to fall back on.
OLA: No.
PHILIPPA: Tell me about organising work and how it works for scheduling work for when you come back, and all those things that you need to think about.
OLA: Yes. So when you’re self-employed, I feel like it can be very easy to start the year in January, get to December, and never have taken a day of annual leave. And so whilst everyone is always down my neck about the fact that I’m always travelling, I do feel like that’s the most efficient way for me to actually take a break, because I work from home.
If I’m ill or I want a day off, I’m still at home with my laptop where I can still see all my social media notifications. I can see all my LinkedIn messages. I can see all my emails. And so I do need to take a step back. So when it comes to planning that, I do need to plan months ahead. One, just from a financial standpoint, because I’m just like, “OK, this is at least two weeks where I’m not earning any money”. Also to just let my clients know that I’m actually going away.
PHILIPPA: How do they tend to take to that?
OLA: Absolutely fine. And I think the more notice you give them, sometimes it can be good, because they at least know. But sometimes it can be bad, because then they’re like, “OK, can you get all of this done before we go?”.
PHILIPPA: A mountain of work before you go.
OLA: In the new year, I want to go travelling in February, go to Sri Lanka. But I have to plan, “OK, what does that look like in terms of social media content, the podcast? Do I have episodes going live there? Do I need to let clients know in terms of any brand work, coaching?”. So I started planning that in November, but I’m not planning on going away until February. So, yeah, there’s a lot of planning that goes into it.
PHILIPPA: Yeah, this sounds familiar to me because I’m self-employed, too. I’ve been self-employed for years. And as you said, I first took time out, I took about three months out of my 20s and went to China and Southeast Asia. And it was great. But at that stage, being young and not so smart, I really hadn’t thought very hard about what I was doing when I came back. So I came back to a really ‘no work, no money’ [situation]. Taught me a valuable lesson. Didn’t do that again. But it’s lovely, isn’t it? To be able to schedule. But I think more planning for the self-employed, obviously.
OLA: Definitely.
PHILIPPA: That’s the thing you have to do.
TOM: Just on that as well Ola, sorry. So I found when I was away, I was fully switched off, deleted all the work, emails, apps, everything from my phone, which was fine. I’d said if there’s an emergency, then they can contact me, but we’re very good. With yourself, with your clients, like you were saying, you can plan ahead. Did you find yourself wanting to check messages and emails and stuff?
PHILIPPA: Or did they send you stuff regardless?
OLA: I’m very strict. I have my ‘Out Of Office’ on, and then I delete the Mail app, delete LinkedIn. Instagram is really hard, because I use Instagram for work and pleasure. So Instagram is always on, but I share more of the highlights of my holiday and what I’m getting up to. But everything else is just incognito, which is sometimes really needed because you don’t realise how much your brain is always on when you’re self-employed.
PHILIPPA: OK, you’re bolder than I am. I always have my stuff just like ticking away. Just in the corner of my eye.
OLA: Sometimes I’m like, “oh, should I download it?” But I’m like, “nah”.
LAUREN: I need to take a leaf out of your book, because I’m self employed and I’m about to take my first period of a month off. And similar to you, this has been a long, probably about three months in the making. And I’ve been working ridiculous hours, which isn’t something I glamourise. I always say I don’t have a dream job, I have a dream lifestyle and work can facilitate it. And that’s really motivating for me.
But I’m quite nervous about taking that time off. I think I won’t necessarily do any client-facing work, but there’s still business admin, lots of bits and pieces. I brought in a Virtual Assistant and I’ve said, “if there’s money on the table, an email comes in, there’s money on the table, obviously, let’s talk”. But there’s a lot of guilt of “well, I might still work, and is that OK?”. Actually, maybe that does calm my nervous system to go, “I’m going to spend 15 minutes just reading my emails in the morning, so then I can switch off”. But it’s that mental preparation is almost just as tough as the financial preparation, too.
OLA: Yeah, always. I think you’re always thinking, “oh, my gosh, the business is going to burn to the ground when you come back”. But then I feel like if you never take that break, when will you?
Financial planning for your micro-retirement
PHILIPPA: You’re right. Ideally, you should definitely step away. I want to talk about financial planning, so you’re about to do this. So tell us how you’ve set about that.
LAUREN: I’m not sure if this is the smartest advice, but what I have done is say “yes” to a lot. Say yes to pretty much everything that’s come my way over the last few months.
PHILIPPA: So you’re stashing the cash.
LAUREN: Yeah, but I have also moved things back so that I know when I come back in February, March, there’s things lined up -
OLA: Yes!
LAUREN: - which makes me feel, I feel much more secure. I have a runway. If I came back and nothing else comes in for the next couple of months, that’s fine.
PHILIPPA: That’ll be so stressful, otherwise not knowing you had and who to come back to.
LAUREN: That’s giving me peace of mind.
PHILIPPA: And your clients and the people you work with?
LAUREN: Yeah, I have. Some clients I’ve worked with extended contracts. I’m like, “just so you know, these are the dates I’m away”.
PHILIPPA: And they’re OK with this?
LAUREN: Yeah. I think I was expecting their panic. I’m like, “oh, actually, they’ll be fine without me”.
PHILIPPA: Like you said, I’m not sure that’s really very good news. It’s swings and roundabouts.
OLA: Having that financial cushion. So God forbid, if you didn’t have any work for a month when you came back, you don’t have to stress. And so, yeah, I always make sure I have at least ‘X’ amount of months runway. So even if I wasn’t going on holiday, I’ll always have that to fall back on.
PHILIPPA: That’s a good tip. Maybe the trick would be to add at least another month or two in your mind to your financial planning. And that either leaves you gloriously well off when you come back or not frightened, at least, of the debt.
LAUREN: Yeah, it’s like with any big project, you’d always add a contingency. It’s almost the equivalent, why not do the same with the sabbatical, too?
TOM: Yeah, exactly that. I think in terms of the savings, I deliberately made a conscious effort for that. The pension, I’ve always made an effort to up a couple of percentages on how much I’m contributing to that. So yes, like I said, “I’d love to retire at 40 or whatever“, but it’s not going to happen for me. But I’d always make an effort to still be thinking about that whilst I’m doing it and you’re not giving up on retiring at any point. We’re all still living for longer and need to still think about that, even with these micro-retirements.
PHILIPPA: I’m just going to ask about our future selves, we’ve been talking about throwing - looking at the now. But we’re a savings and investments podcast here. So I’m going to say, this is all great, but we do really want to keep those rolling. Did you bring down your pensions and savings contributions when you went away or did you just ditch them?
TOM: When we were away, they stopped. So I wasn’t earning any salary or anything into my pension. But it was, like I said, in terms of the planning for it in advance, I was saving more into my pension and still do that now to help for that in the future.
PHILIPPA: So you front loaded it?
TOM: Yeah, front loaded it. Still do that now. I think like you were saying in terms of I’m always saving for that. Yes, you’ve got your emergency pot, but also for these experiences. And we’ve spoken a lot, I think, about travelling, but I think it’s more about whether it’s self-development. Do you just want time off? Do you want to renovate your house? Maybe spend time with your family, depending where you’re at.
PHILIPPA: It might be a year to do a Masters or something. Exactly.
TOM: So I think for me, it’s being intentional about my savings now. I think it’s taught me it’s saving for experiences as opposed to just that traditional retirement of 60, 65, 70 [years old].
PHILIPPA: What’s your plan on - You’re about to do this? On the ongoing saving front.
LAUREN: I’ll still continue to save while I’m having time off, but I’ll reduce it. The reason I’m able to do that’s because the nature of invoices getting paid, even though I’m not technically working that period, there’ll still be invoices coming in.
PHILIPPA: Trickling in.
LAUREN: It’ll still allow me to contribute just at a slightly reduced rate.
PHILIPPA: Obviously, the trick there’s to make sure you kick it back up again -
LAUREN: Yes.
PHILIPPA: - when you come back. Because it’s very easy to get used to contributing or saving less.
OLA: Yes.
LAUREN: Very easy.
PHILIPPA: Yeah. I’m going to wrap this up by asking you if your number one tip people think about it. So go on, tell me yours.
LAUREN: I guess my biggest tip is you often regret the things you don’t do, not the things you do. So go for it.
PHILIPPA: Tom?
TOM: I think save early. And then when you’ve got a figure in mind of what you want to save, save a lot more on top of that.
OLA: Yeah, that’s a good one, isn’t it?
PHILIPPA: OK, more on saving.
OLA: Just have that goal in mind and have set a financial goal towards that and save accordingly. I think it’s all good and well said, “I want to take a sabbatical, I want to take an early retirement”, but not actually know how much you’re going to need for that financially. So yeah, set a goal.
PHILIPPA: So you’re going to Sri Lanka next. Where would it be after?
OLA: Maybe Australia. We’ll see.
TOM: I think Central America.
LAUREN: Yeah, I’m off to the Caribbean in January.
OLA: Oh!
PHILIPPA: OK. I’m not liking Lauren as much as I did. We’re all very jealous. Thanks, everyone. That was so interesting!
TOM: Thank you.
OLA: Thanks for having us.
LAUREN: That was a great conversation.
PHILIPPA: If you’re enjoying the series. Give us a rating and a review. It really helps us reach more listeners like you. And if you’ve missed an episode, don’t worry. You can catch up any time on your favourite podcast app or YouTube, or if you’re a PensionBee customer in the PensionBee app, too.
We’ll be back in January. In the meantime, we’ll be sharing a special bonus episode featuring the best bits from Series 4 over the Christmas break. So stay tuned for that. Just a final reminder that anything discussed on the podcast shouldn’t be regarded as financial advice or legal advice, and when investing, your capital is at risk. Thanks for being with us this year. We’ll see you next time.
Risk warning
As always with investments, your capital is at risk. The value of your investment can go down as well as up, and you may get back less than you invest. This information should not be regarded as financial advice.
