The following is a transcript of our monthly podcast, The Pension Confident Podcast. Listen to episode 30, watch on YouTube or scroll on to read the conversation.
PHILIPPA: Hello. Welcome back to The Pension Confident Podcast. I’m Philippa Lamb, and this time we’re going to be talking about how money plays into your happiness. More money must equal more happiness, right? But does it? Can money really buy you happiness? Not necessarily. According to research from two top American universities, they found that happiness usually rises until people have about $100,000. After that, the magic can stop working. So, if the relationship between cash and contentment is actually quite complex - how much money do you think it’d take to make you happy?
Ken Okoroafor is a Sunday Times Best-Selling Author of Financial Joy. He’s also Co-Founder of The Humble Penny and The Financial Joy Academy. He’s all about helping others achieve financial independence. Welcome back to the podcast, Ken.
KEN: Hey, thank you.
PHILIPPA: Kim Stephenson is a psychologist. He’s a chartered member of the British Psychological Society. Welcome, Kim.
KIM: Good morning.
PHILIPPA: Now, you’re working on research about this right now, aren’t you?
KIM: I am, yes. We’re developing a website and a book. It’s basically about the science of prosperity.
PHILIPPA: Nice. Joining us from PensionBee this month, Emily Tribe. Now, she’s their Head of Culture, Inclusion, and Wellbeing. Nice to have you with us.
EMILY: Thank you for having me.
PHILIPPA: The usual disclaimer before we start, please remember, anything discussed on this podcast shouldn’t be regarded as financial advice or legal advice, and when investing, your capital is at risk.
The first question I have for all of you is quite a brain stretch, I think. I want you to imagine a money and happiness sliding scale, where one is where you’re just not bothered about cash. You’re happy to live like a Buddhist monk; it doesn’t matter to you. 10 is where your money and your happiness are totally bound up in each other; they’re one and the same thing. I’d like to know where all of you are on this scale. So come on, Kim, what’s the number?
KIM: I’d have to say exactly five and a half because the important bit’s happiness.
PHILIPPA: OK. Emily?
EMILY: You’ve stolen my answer! I was worried I was going to be really boring, but I think I’m also a five, in the middle.
PHILIPPA: Yeah. OK, to make life easier for Ken, I’m going to say I think I’m a bit more on the money end of it myself. What do you think, Ken?
KEN: I’m probably a seven to seven and a half. Mainly because, for me, money is very important. Particularly if you have a lot of changes in your life: children, careers, but relationships, health are very, very important.
PHILIPPA: So that’s an interesting point. Would you say then that where you are on that scale has changed over time?
KEN: Oh, yes! Absolutely. I’d say a lot of it has changed having children. Raising children, between my wife and I (Mary and I) and those children growing up - and children aren’t cheap.
PHILIPPA: No, we know this.
KEN: And also changing careers, because when you change careers and you don’t have your regular paycheck, and your regular perks, and all those things coming in as normal. I’m self-employed. And then as you get older, and I’ve hit 40 recently, something happens when you turn 40, you start to think: “hang on a sec, have I lived half my life already?” And then the question of retirement and all those things are not too far away, there’s always that question of, “is there enough?”.
PHILIPPA: It’s a safety net.
KEN: Yes.
PHILIPPA: Emily, you’ve got children, I know.
EMILY: I do.
PHILIPPA: Has your number changed, do you think, over time?
EMILY: I think I can see how I’ll feel the same as you when I’m slightly further along the parenting journey, because right now I feel like we’re quite lucky. I don’t feel like we need to worry about money too much on the day-to-day, but the cost of childcare is astronomical! I’ve got two -
PHILIPPA: Oh yes, we’ve talked about this on the podcast.
EMILY: Yeah, I’ve got two in nursery, so there’s not enough money to save for the future at the moment. So, I do worry about that sometimes. But in terms of the present moment, I feel like we have enough to do what we want.
PHILIPPA: Kim, were you always a five and a half?
KIM: No. The same as everybody else, it’s changed quite a lot because there was a time early on, I was self-employed. I got made redundant from jobs.
PHILIPPA: Money became more important?
KIM: Yeah. It was trouble to pay the mortgage and it was stressful. That was all I was bothered about.
PHILIPPA: Yeah, I know how that feels. Yeah, you don’t think about much else at that point, do you?
KIM: The sad point is that there, happiness goes.
PHILIPPA: Yeah.
KEN: Yes.
Does money equal happiness?
PHILIPPA: Is there a number, Kim, do you think that after you reach that, you just don’t get happy? What does the data say?
KIM: Well, they’ve reimagined the data because it was you get happier with money, which is understandable.
PHILIPPA: So just a direct link? The more you have, the happier you are.
KIM: Yeah. Up to, the research was done in the States, and it was about $100,000, so it’s about £75,000 a year in the UK, and it flattened off. But they re-examined it and they said it does actually carry on going up as you get more. I think (this is only my opinion) but I think the reason for that is because, of course, all these stats are done on averages. Who’s average? The point is, as we were saying earlier on, at different ages, different things matter. If you’re Bill Gates and you’re 22 and you’re a multi-billionaire, how much does the money matter to you? It’s all about -
PHILIPPA: Another billion.
KIM: Yeah, it’s to grow some more businesses and do some stuff. If you have kids and you know that you can provide for them, you know you can buy them into university, you can do all these things - that’s going to be really useful. But if you become like Scrooge McDuck, you’re just accumulating money and it doesn’t bring you anything, then you’re probably going to flatten off and you could have billions and billions and still be miserable as sin.
PHILIPPA: There was some research, wasn’t there? That talked about if you’re not very happy in the first place, more money doesn’t make you that much happier.
KEN: Yeah, I was just going to make this point, actually. You can be rich but be very miserable at the same time. So, there are people who have good amount of income or wealth, more generally, but suffer various things, clinical depression, bereavement. Their children might not be speaking to them anymore. It might be divorce; it might be health problems. They’re just different things that mean that even if you have a lot of money, you’re not necessarily going to always be happy, and more money wouldn’t necessarily bring you more happiness.
PHILIPPA: Does it matter how you get the money, do we think, in terms of the happiness it brings you? I mean, if you earn it or if you inherit it, it must be satisfaction in making it.
KEN: I come from a background where we had no money at all. For me, over time, having to improve my skill set, work on my mindset, really trying to really advance myself has really brought me joy on a personal level because I have a sense of progression and a sense of like, I’m actually seeing my money grow. For example, knowing that having my money invested back when I started in 2010 over time and seeing my portfolio grow has meant a lot actually because it’s meant that actually, you know what? I actually made good decisions about my money and that’s brought me happiness in a way seeing that happen.
PHILIPPA: So, it’s quite affirming?
KIM: Yeah. There’s a handy model: “PERMA+“ which stands for:
Positive emotions;
Engagement, which is doing stuff that you like doing;
Relationships, which can be spirituality;
Meaning, it’s believing that what you’re doing matters; and
the other one’s Accomplishments.
And that’s exactly it, which is why you get the stats that in general, millionaires who just inherit the money don’t have as much enjoyment of it.
PHILIPPA: Is that true? The data does say that?
KIM: If you earn it, you get that sense of accomplishment.
PHILIPPA: See, that’s quite nice for all of us who haven’t inherited millions of pounds, isn’t it?
EMILY: But I found something slightly conflicting. I was actually quite excited when I heard the topic for today because this was the topic of the first ever undergraduate essay I wrote.
PHILIPPA: No way!
EMILY: And when I wrote that, I was talking a bit about some high-profile cases of lottery winners, who winning huge amounts of money actually can make people unhappier because it can isolate them from their friends and family or change some of their core relationships. But then being invited on today, I’d relooked at the research, and actually there’s quite interesting studies from Germany and Sweden that did a long-term analysis of people over a period of years and people who won money on the lottery did get happier - and that happiness did last! And the more money they won, the happier they got.
KIM: That’s an unusual one. But everybody will react in a different way. But you do find, generally, that when you go out and earn it. And what they’ve generally found is there’s a happiness set point. So, if you have a lottery win, it’ll boost happiness for a while. Then it usually sinks back to pretty much... It might be slightly higher.
PHILIPPA: Because you get used to it?
KIM: Yeah, you adapt to it. And if you have a serious accident or you lose money, you tend to ping back. Part of the secret of it is learning how to maximise - push your set point up, so that whatever happens...
PHILIPPA: That’s really interesting! I was going to ask you about that because there’s this ‘loss aversion‘ thing, isn’t there? Would you be more sad at losing £1,000 than happy at gaining £1,000? Which is the strongest emotion, I suppose.
KEN: Well, naturally, people always want to avoid pain, right?
PHILIPPA: Yeah.
KEN: And that’s really interesting because the one that gives you the bigger benefit over time, really, is watching that grow instead. But we don’t tend to see the focus on
“how do I make my money grow?” It’s “how do I prevent losses? How do I leave my money in my current account so that no one takes it?” You see what I’m saying? Yeah, safety. Exactly that.
Understanding your appetite for risk
PHILIPPA: How universal is this data? I’m wondering about this. Is this the same for everyone? Because I’m thinking, are there cultural differences here? Does everyone in every country feel the same way about this?
KIM: The stats that I’ve seen suggests that everybody is... I mean, the average, again, nobody’s average, but the big numbers, people are affected about twice as much by a loss as they would be [by a gain]. And it makes sense because we evolved as hunter-gatherers. If you take a big risk, you get killed. End of the game. If you don’t take the risk, maybe you go a bit hungry, but you live another day. So, we’re basically evolved to be more worried about getting it wrong.
PHILIPPA: So, this is about appetite for risk, isn’t it? How safe you feel about risking money.
KEN: Yeah, and risk has a cultural perspective. In America, for example, they’re much more risk-loving. That’s the perception I get in my interactions with Americans. But in the UK, we’re much more protective of what we have. If you look at the cues from the media and look at the cues more generally on social media: “they’re coming for our money. They want to dip their hand in our pocket. So how do I keep what’s mine?” You know, that’s the messaging. When in actual fact, that mindset, this is where mindset is such an important thing because our money mindset is deep-rooted. It’s very personal and goes back to our parents and our grandparents and impacts our lives today and potentially might even impact our children. This is why this money thing isn’t just a numbers thing, it’s very emotional. It’s how do you shift that mindset such that you’re able to think: “actually, do you know what? I’m looking after my health now because I want to get to 60 and 70. If I’m going to arrive at that age, what do I need to start doing today for my money to help me so that I’m not panicking and worrying about running out of money?“
PHILIPPA: As you say, interrogating ourselves about what it is about having money that makes us feel good is really interesting, isn’t it? Because like you said, childhood experience, family circumstances. Are we trying to impress our parents? Is that what makes us happy? I mean, you laugh, but people do, don’t they? Is it acquiring stuff? Is it competing with other people? Is it doing better than other people? What is it about the money that individually makes us happy?
KEN: For me, personally, it’s not about the numbers. The amount you have in your bank account, it can give you a sense of: “I feel secure”. But personally, for me, I feel it’s the fact that it’s bought me back more time so that I have more power to make certain decisions. For example, we were talking about being parents, and if you want to raise your children well, you need to give them time. You need to actually be there and be present. I always think with parenting, it’s either you pay up front or you pay later. There’s always a cost. There’s always a monetary element connected to that. Because if you’re not working as many hours because you want to be with your children, you have to give up certain things, you have to adapt to a certain earnings level. So, the happiness that comes from money is knowing that I have flexibility, I have certain freedoms.
PHILIPPA: Autonomy.
EMILY: Yeah, the exact same words, freedom and independence for me. And I’m working part-time at the moment, and obviously there’s a financial hit with that. But I feel really grateful to be able to take that financial hit. And I think also what money has given me is the freedom to be able to walk away from things that aren’t working for me. And I like knowing that I can stand on my own two feet.
PHILIPPA: It’s interesting. This brings us to Maslow’s hierarchy. It’s a pyramid, isn’t it? Right down the bottom, there’s physical needs: things like food, sleep, breathing. And up at the top, there’s much more abstruse and complicated: things like creativity and morals and meaning in your life. But in between, there are all these other things around: safety, security, love, belonging, self-esteem. Because money doesn’t necessarily play into a lot of those. Not really, does it?
KIM: No. What I tend to do is simplify that for psychology and money. So, you have suffering, which is where it’s eating or heating - or something like that. Or you can’t give the kids decent shoes to go to school in, things like that.
PHILIPPA: You’re in need.
KIM: That’s whatever happens, you really need more. Now, the useful thing, if you can’t get more money, is if you can change, as Ken said, your mindset. If you can start to think about: “OK, what makes me happy?” If I haven’t got the hours of work, I’m on zero-hours contract or something, can I spend more time with the kids? Can I do something that does relationships? It gives me a sense of... Can I study? It gives me accomplishments. Above that, which is where, fortunately, most of the population are. Obviously we’ve got a cost of living crisis. Horrible. Above that, yeah, more money’s still good because it starts to give you that freedom. You’ve got your (I’ll put it politely) your ‘go away, keep your job’ money.
KEN: Yes.
PHILIPPA: Yes. And that’s a lot of money.
KIM: Which is, yes. But at that point, a lot of what you were saying earlier on, you can have very rich people and all they’re doing is surviving because they’re not enjoying it. They’re obsessed with making more money for no particular reason other than, quite often, to prove to their parents that they’re more successful than their siblings. And what I tend to do in coaching is to say to people: “remember, you can’t eat your cake and have it.” If you’re going out and buying, the bloke up the road bought a Porsche, so you buy a Ferrari and you have an £80,000 loan to buy it.
PHILIPPA: I can only imagine.
KEN: Yeah, it’s very relatable.
Avoiding lifestyle creep and finding joy
KEN: I’d say that for everybody, there’s a unique picture of what we call ‘financial joy’. What does that look like for them? The challenge with today is that we compare ourselves so naturally, not even actively, but passively. You watch a TikTok, or you see your sibling. I’m seeing a lot of people around me right now upgrading their houses. They’re going from: “I’m in a semi-detached [house], I now want a detached [house] with some land” and all this stuff. That means obviously taking on more mortgage - and more everything! But then I don’t ask myself, because Mary, my wife and I worked hard, and over seven years, we paid off our mortgage and became mortgage-free. Then I’m asking myself: “is what I’ve got enough now?” Because I’m seeing other people...
PHILIPPA: Are you really feeling that?
KEN: Yes! No, this is true. I’m being super transparent.
PHILIPPA: That’s interesting because you’ve thought about this stuff a lot and you’re still feeling it?
KEN: Because you can see your nearest and dearest doing certain things. So, my point is, I have to have such a strong image of what that life looks like for me and being able to stick to it. And say: “OK, this is my version of ‘financial joy’. I’m happy with it. We’re happy with what we’re building and where we’re at and what freedoms we want in our lives. What other people are doing doesn’t matter and shouldn’t change the decisions we make about - should we get a bigger house?” It’s very difficult because not everybody has that willpower or that discipline or that mindset to stick to their plan.
PHILIPPA: But it’s interesting, isn’t it? Because if you think about it, rents being what they are, mortgage rates being what they are, the idea of being mortgage-free is a dream for most people.
KEN: Yes.
PHILIPPA: The ultimate thing, the house - it’s mine! No one can take it from me. So, the idea of having got there, you’re going to think: “maybe I need a bigger house?” And that’s going to involve a mortgage.
KEN: Yeah.
PHILIPPA: Isn’t that like... I understand, who wouldn’t want a bigger house? A Ritzy house. But it takes you back to a place where you’ve still got some jeopardy in your life, doesn’t it?
KEN: Yeah, exactly. Which is why you need to have... this where the mindset comes in. You need to be really grounded in the right money mindset. To say: “actually no, shifting so I can get a house that then has more space, more land or more whatever, actually will cost me”. Because your earning potential doesn’t actually increase as you... When you pass a certain age, you may want to work less, actually, which means that you may not have the same earning potential as before. You need to really manage your lifestyle really well. Just make sure that you’re still able to meet your outgoings, your basic costs, travel - all those things you want to do. But it takes a particular mindset, you see. For me, it’s been interesting seeing it in and around my life and then choosing to stay put, because we know what that happiness and joy looks like for us.
The marshmallow test
PHILIPPA: Well, because also it’s contradictory needs, isn’t it? There’s only so much money. And if you’re thinking: “yeah, I want a bigger house”. What you’re not thinking about is the thing that isn’t handed to you, which is: “you know what? You should be saving more”. We always talk about pensions on this podcast. It’s what it’s all about. But it’s that, isn’t it? You talk about later life. Maybe you don’t want to work so hard, earn a little bit less, if you’re able to do that. So, saving, does that give you the same sort of boost? The idea that you’re stashing money away for later, as the immediate win of: “look at my new big house”. It’s quite tough, isn’t it?
KIM: The thing is there’s a lovely thing if you look up ‘the marshmallow test‘.
PHILIPPA: Tell us about the marshmallow test!
KIM: It’s basically done with kids. And you give a kid a sweet, and it was originally done with marshmallows.
PHILIPPA: You put them on the table, don’t you?
KIM: You put them on the table. And then the experimenter says: “well, you can eat it now, but I’ve got to nip off and do something. I’ll be back in 10 minutes. If it’s still there, if you haven’t eaten it when I come back, you get an extra one”. They did follow-up studies (like 15-20 years later) and the kids who could resist eating - it’s called deferred gratification, people who can put it off. And I’ve done this in lectures and seminars and things with audiences, and you get adults sitting there sniggering at silly little kids. And then you say: “So who has bought a car with a car loan?” And in 20 years’ time, you’re going to be saying, “I wish I’d saved more!”
PHILIPPA: That’s so interesting.
KIM: If you’re going to use your money now and buy all this stuff. And as you said, it’s very difficult. But I use examples like that with people to say: “Look, if you can try and get yourself into that mindset, the natural evolved thing of you compete to be a good mate, so you want better stuff than the other guy. You want better than your siblings. You want to impress people with my stuff. The trouble is you’ve got to buy that stuff and then you no longer have the money”.
PHILIPPA: Have you done this with your kid? I did this with my son when he was little, the marshmallow test. It was really interesting. And he did resist it. And he’s turned out to be quite a planner.
EMILY: My children are like me, they like to have a biscuit in both hands!
KIM: Again, my ‘pet hate’ with research is people say: “Oh well, those people who can do that, do better later on”. And it’s like “financial habits are set by the age of seven” and things. And yeah, the data does indicate that. But to me, that says nobody can change. You’re like that as a kid, you’ve inherited genes like that, you’ve got parents who support you. Great! But what if you don’t? It doesn’t mean you’re dead and buried. At any age, you can be 99, and still be learning.
PHILIPPA: I firmly believe that. And we talk about this a lot on the podcast - financial education being so poor in this country. As you say, not all parents are able to have the know-how to educate their kids. Schools don’t do it. So, they grow up and they don’t know anything different to what they knew when they were 10. But with education, you can absolutely change the way you think about it.
KEN: I think the things we learn from our parents; I almost think of it as a version 1.0. And over time, you can upgrade that to a 2.0.
PHILIPPA: Yeah, because it’s like all these self-help (I use that term, ‘self-help tools’), actually engaging with them can feel like doing the job, can’t it? Rather than actually taking the action afterwards, which is actually doing the job. So just reading them or going to the website, or whatever it might be, and then putting it into play. That’s another thing, isn’t it? And that brings us, I suppose, to the thought that if we’ve all done a bit of self-interrogation about what it’s we really think is important to us to do with our money, what you then do to actually make sure that that money is in place. I think that’s not necessarily about having loads of money, it’s about working with the money you’ve got, isn’t it? Thoughts on that? How do people... Once they’ve thought, yeah, I’m understanding myself better. I know where I want to be, and it’s not crazy, but it seems quite hard.
KEN: I think it all begins with that thing we said at the very beginning: “What is my unique picture of what I want? What are my financial goals? And what are the things that are the things we need?” So, the bits that give you a sense of happiness or joy or whatever. What are those things tangibly? Almost setting a picture. Then outside of setting that vision and picture, it’s: “What are the goals in numbers?”
PHILIPPA: Yeah, attaching numbers to it.
KEN: For example, I have 15 years until I want to retire or whatever, whatever retirement means to people. Does that mean I need £600k in an investment portfolio or £400k or whatever. What is it in numbers? And then from there working backwards to, OK, I’ve set the picture, I know all my goals are. How do I begin with the little I have today? So yes, that number is massive, but could I start with £50 a month? Could I start with £100 a month to start working towards it? I think it’s a series of steps. I think what often overwhelms people is thinking: “oh, gosh, there’s so much going on” and it paralyses them.
PHILIPPA: It’s unattainable.
KEN: Yeah, it’s unattainable. But I think starting small really helps.
PHILIPPA: How have you started this journey, Emily? Because I think about it myself, being on the journey, personally, I always found it added to my happiness. So even when I was right down at financial rock bottom, just having a plan, making a start, it adds to your happiness. It does seem like a long way to where you’re going, but it’s a good feeling.
EMILY: I don’t know if it’s going off on a bit of a tangent, but as you were talking about financial literacy, I was also thinking something I think is lacking a bit in this country (and also within myself) is ‘emotional literacy’. And that understanding of knowing what your goals are and what goals you’ve just absorbed without thinking and what is it that you actually want out of life. And then I was also thinking about the delayed gratification thing. I’ve had a lot of therapy over the last few years, which is a financial investment in itself because it’s quite expensive.
PHILIPPA: It is!
EMILY: But I think in terms of changing my mindset and my outlook and my ability to stick to my goals and take a calmer approach to life, that’s been a huge part of it for me. But at the moment, in terms of those long-term goals and financial steps, not a huge amount, to be honest, because I’m busy and the nursery bill is almost £2,000 a month. So, I’m just really looking forward to them - I don’t want to wish their infancy away - but I’m also really looking forward to them starting school and having a bit of cash back -
PHILIPPA: Yeah, because it’s a huge bill.
EMILY: - and then being able to think about: “what do we want to do with that money?”
PHILIPPA: I mean, that’s the other end of this, isn’t it, Kim? It’s all very well, we talk about having a plan. We talk about making a commitment, attaching numbers to the things we want, making a commitment, doing our best. But we don’t want to make ourselves miserable because life gets in the way, doesn’t it? As Emily says, she’s got huge bills to deal with right now because her kids are really small. She can’t really be thinking about long-term aspirations in a very meaningful way. So, we don’t want to undermine our happiness around money stuff, do we? By having too rigid a plan?
KIM: I’d agree with that. Yeah. I mean, what I’d do is start off by things like - if people look up things like the PERMA model, because there are free questionnaires you can do that are actually scientifically tested out about where do you get - what floats your boat? Are you a very ‘people person’? Are you quite introverted? I mean, nobody’s so introverted. That’s why solitary confinement is a punishment. People need people. That’s the point. So, you want some relationships, but some people are much more comfortable with loads and loads of people around them. Some people want a few very, very good friends. So, what do you actually want there? And then avoiding losing joy while you’re trying to do things. If, for example, you’re tied into a job, you’ve got to do that job, you don’t really enjoy it. Can you find hobbies that you can do that give you the stuff; say it has... you’re shelf filling or whatever. Can you do a hobby that has meaning? Can you do artistic stuff or something like that?
PHILIPPA: Volunteer?
KEN: Volunteer.
KIM: Yeah, volunteering is a great one because that gives you the benefit of helping others.
PHILIPPA: Nice feeling. So, this is your area, isn’t it? Wellbeing. We need to get ourselves in a good place to do whatever it is we’re doing. But particularly if we’re doing something demanding, like trying to save money, it’s that first, isn’t it?
EMILY: Well, I think about it in the context of workplace wellbeing, because that’s my role at PensionBee. And I was thinking, it’s not just a case that we give people a high salary, and then that’s the only thing that we think about and expect them to be happy. You’ve also got to give them a meaningful career, opportunities for development, progression, and nice people to work with.
KEN: On a really personal level, one thing I’ve found really helpful when it comes to wellbeing and joy and all those things is, practically speaking, is how can you find one thing every week that you commit a little bit of money or maybe even no money to that gives you joy every week and you diarise it? So, for me, it’s on Fridays. I have the day off on Fridays. I go out with my wife on a date. We go to the cinema; we do different little things. And it’s life-changing! Sometimes it costs money, sometimes it’s just: “hey, let’s go for a walk and maybe stop off and have a mocha” or something. But I get a sense of joy every week. If you do it once a week, that’s 52 times a year, you get a sense that I’m working hard, but you know what? I’m really experiencing joy every week. It’s planned, it’s intentional, it could be low cost, and it works, and everyone can attain that.
PHILIPPA: I’m going to wrap that up here because I think that’s a perfect note for us to end on. It’s low cost, high joy. Thank you very much, everyone. Fantastic. If you enjoyed this episode, please do rate and review us. We always love to hear what you think. You know that. We’ll be taking a short break in August but keep an eye on our feed because we’ll be sharing lots of bonus content over the summer to help you grow your financial confidence. Just before we go, a quick reminder, anything discussed on the podcast shouldn’t be regarded as financial or legal advice. When investing, your capital is at risk. Enjoy the rest of your summer. See you next time.
Risk warning
As always with investments, your capital is at risk. The value of your investment can go down as well as up, and you may get back less than you invest. This information should not be regarded as financial advice.
